An interview with Prof. S. Imtiaz Hasnain,
Professor of Linguistics, Aligarh Muslim University

Prof. Hasnain was instrumental in bringing SPICMACAY to JNU.

Bhoomika: When and how did your relationship with JNU begin?

Prof. Hasnain: I joined JNU as a M.A. student in Centre for Linguistics and English in 1978. I had graduated in Science from Magadh University. I had heard something about Linguistics, Philology in particular, from my father, who was a professor of Urdu. I had also heard a lot about JNU from my brother, S. Ehtesham Hasnain, who was in School of Life Sciences here. I had applied to three centres in JNU  Sociology, Russian Studies and Linguistics. While I was selected in both Sociology and Russian Studies, I was waitlisted in Linguistics!  Therefore, Linguistics attracted me  it looked both challenging and attractive.  I took admission. I just wanted to see what it would be like but I stayed on forever in Linguistics. JNU provides you with the rare opportunity to shift streams. Despite being a science graduate it was not difficult for me to opt for humanities. It helped me to diversify, to digress, and to explore newer territories. It encouraged inter-disciplinarity in research in a big way. And Linguistics is supposed to be a truly inter-disciplinary subject where people from all streams converge. Though I had no background in Linguistics, and it was a completely new subject for me, I never felt ill at ease.  We were fortunate enough to be in good hands and we were exposed to some excellent teachers like Prof. Daswani, Prof. Kapoor,  Prof. Abbi, Prof. R.N. Srivastava, Prof. Gill,  Prof. Arlene Zide and others, under whose able guidance I went on to make a career in Linguistics. I must mention here that though Prof Gill joined CLE sometime in 1984, our association with him left an indelible mark on our thinking. We were introduced to Saussure and other post-structuralists like Barthes, Foucault, and Derrida by him. I finished my PhD from here in 1985 under the supervision of Prof Abbi before proceeding to USA on an East West Centre Fulbright Fellowship for Post-Doctoral research. On returning to India, I joined Punjabi University in Patiala. From there I moved on to Aligarh Muslim University where presently I'm a Professor of Linguistics.

Bhoomika: What is your area of research in Linguistics?

Prof. Hasnain: My Ph.D topic was in the area of Sociolinguistics. It was about Standardization and Modernization of language and I took up a case study of Urdu language. I started research as a conformist, unquestioningly agreeing with linguistic norm and the notion of standard in language, least realizing that standard language is a theoretical construct and an ideology, and even the process of language standardization provides an ideal ground for contestation and disciplining of language. But now I look at the interface between language and society with the emphasis upon power and ideology from a critical language study point of view  exploring how language is centrally involved in power and struggles for power, how it is a tool in the hands of powerful people,  how they use it for the propagation of power relations. Gender and language, language standardization, use of mother tongue in education, question of minority language rights, problems concerning recovery and reconstitution of individual identity and legitimation of degraded dispossessed who were condemned to backwardness during colonial visitation, etc. are important issues in this equation of language and power. 

These issues are of immediate salience to linguistic studies and I am trying to address these issues by drawing insights from post-structuralism and post-modernism. I personally feel that linguistics in general has cut itself off from immediate engagement with such concerns by insulating itself from the currents of thought generated by the post-structural and post-modern projects, and has largely remained asocial and ideologically insensitive. As sociolinguist, I feel, we should move out of a predominantly socially neutral paradigm, and make a sociolinguistic enterprise socially relevant and morally responsible.  Prof. Gill brought very new ideas with him and, as mentioned earlier, my interaction with him was very fruitful in this regard. I'm grateful to my supervisor, Prof. Anvita Abbi, for encouraging me to interact with such people who shaped my perspective regarding language and society. This freedom helped me broaden my horizons and look at things in a different, non-conventional way. JNU also inspired me to not just confine myself to Linguistics but to move beyond it to other available discourses and spheres of knowledge.  We were made familiar with an excellent reading culture on the campus and we were even allowed to take up courses in other centres. We would read Foucault, Barthes, and Derrida in our leisure time. We took up courses in other centres to enhance and reinforce our knowledge of these emergent discourses. In MA, I did 10 core papers from Linguistics and six from other centres.

Bhoomika: Tell us something about the co-curricular activities on campus in your times, particularly about your association with SPICMACAY in the early 80s.

Prof. Hasnain: I had been associated since 1978 with Kiran Seth who is a professor at IIT and who founded SPICMACAY in 1977. When we suggested the beginning of the JNU chapter of SPICMACAY, there was a loud protest from JNUites who felt that the university must promote its own talent rather than bringing people from outside to perform here.   They felt that it was no use having SPICMACAY here as we already had a Music Club. But we had support from the V.C. and some other faculty members who were connoisseurs of music, like Sudipto Kaviraj, Abbi, etc.  We got it started finally. I was the secretary of the Music Club. We would organize informal baithaks and Lecture-Demonstration by stalwarts like Bismillah Khan, Hariprasad Chaurasia, Bhim Sen Joshi. Shiv Kumar Sharma, Amjad Ali Khan, Ustad Bismillah Khan, Dagar brothers, Shanti Hiranand, Gangubai Hangal, Sonal Man Singh, Sitara Devi, Kiran Sehgal etc. They have all performed here in the Kavery, Godavari and Jhelum hostel messes. I was also the joint secretary of the Film Club. Franson Davis Manjali (who is a professor in Centre of Linguistics now) was the secretary of the Film Club. We would screen memorable movies by the likes of Ritwick Ghatak and Satyajit Ray, followed by discussions. We would also sometimes invite teachers and experts from places like FTII to talk about these directors and their films. We used to go to French Cultural centre to watch the screenings of contemporary French films on Fridays and classics on Saturdays. We were also regular visitors to Max Mueller and the Hungarian Embassy. We would go all the way to these places to catch good movies. So there was a very exciting cultural ambience in JNU and we benefitted a lot out of it.

Bhoomika: How would you comment on the student-teacher relationship in JNU in those days? As a visiting faculty at present, do you notice a shift in this relationship?

Prof. Hasnain: I think it was friendlier and less formal in our times. Now, as a visiting faculty, I do notice a change. There was no hierarchy involved in this relation in those days. We would walk down from the library, which was located in the old campus, to our hostel in the new campus in a group, stopping at different dhabas for tea. It was a common thing to see the likes of Prof. Moonis Raza having tea at the same dhaba. The teachers would simply join us. They would participate in our conversation. Though they were scholars of great repute, their presence was never formidable for us.  They would make an attempt to be more friendly and informal with us. They definitely had an authority over us but we were not supposed to submit to them in a docile way. They wanted us to question things and even challenge them at times. I guess we were being prepared to combat the outside world in a better way. I remember when Kurt Waldheim, the former UN Secretary General came to India and spoke at Sapru House, we all took a completely packed bus and went to hear him. I was amazed by the way our seniors boldly questioned him on a lot of his policy decisions, and he was even asked to clarify his stance vis a vis genocide, as he was alleged to have had some association with the Nazis in the past. This incident may appear insignificant, but it does suggest that one must question and argue fearlessly, even if the person wields power and authority. In the classroom also we were encouraged to develop the culture of questioning our teachers. We did it all but within the domain of civility. We had respect for them.  During our time we had a democratic body, called Student-Faculty Committee (SFC), which provided ample space for argument and discussion. We knew the boundaries well, though the boundaries were never explicitly defined.  JNU gave us ample opportunity to interact with friends across the discipline. We learnt a lot from each other. We also gained a lot from people from outside. It was great listening Andre Gunder Frank, Samir Amin, Tariq Ali etc. who came to JNU to talk to us and we always cross-questioned them. We focused on getting educated not just formally but also informally through all these activities. We never thought of appearing in the civil services exams. In fact, it was almost blasphemy for budding academicians like us. One comes out of JNU with certain idealism. And one seeks to exercise it when one becomes a part of the wider society, perhaps at the cost of causing enough discomfiture to those who were never exposed to this culture. That is what makes JNU a different kind of educative experience.

Bhoomika: How would you describe JNU academic culture in contrast with the other universities you've been to?

Prof. Hasnain: JNU is the centre of academic excellence. It attracts the best students from all over. People come here not just for academics but to have an opportunity to improve themselves and their prospects. This place gets the crème-de-la crème of the nation. And teachers here are capable of generating interest even among those students who are not quite the cream. In short one can say that the quality of students is much better in JNU. The classes are thus more conducive to discussion based learning. The case is different with universities like AMU. Although AMU provides a lot of opportunities and necessary infrastructural facilities to enhance and sharpen the academic acumen of the students, the results are yet to be as expected. Given the right kind of impetus and ambience, students can do very well even there but the conditions generally are not as favourable for this in those universities. First, they get a very heterogeneous group of students  some very bright and some very poor students make up your class. So you have to strike a balance in order to reach out to the maximum. In JNU you can simply take off. You can take it for granted that the students already know a lot of things. But there you can not do that. Secondly, in JNU I don't have to struggle with language. Students have good backgrounds and they understand basic English. Here the main issue is content and not the medium of instruction. In AMU, you have to struggle at the level of language too. Subjects like Linguistics, Philosophy, History, etc require a minimum knowledge of English. In AMU, we have people coming mostly from the vernacular background. I'm not speaking against these students but it does become taxing and indeed very difficult to teach them through English. You have to come down to a certain level to be comprehensible to them. A lot of content, energy and time are wasted in the process.       

Bhoomika: How do you find JNU now? Better than your times?

Prof. Hasnain: I think it is human nature to glorify one's past. But I'd better desist from that right now. A much more perceptive and intelligent lot of students is coming in now- they are much better than what we were. They are coming out of rigorous competition. We also faced competition but things are getting tougher gradually. It is getting tougher every year to get into JNU. They are more focused too.

I've already said that we had a very strong reading culture in JNU in the 70s and the 80s and I'm not sure if it remains so today. We used to buy books outside linguistics too. We would then exchange them and read others' books and then we would all discuss them. You were free to read what you liked. Your contingency bills were signed without any fuss. I am not in a position to say how it is today because my stay here has been short and my interaction with students limited.

Bhoomika: Which aspect of JNU do you like the most?

Prof. Hasnain: I would say independent thinking. That is something unique about this place.

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